23.08.10, 11:47
Ajattelin kysellä vähän, että millaisia rengaspaineita porukka käyttää R888
sa. Mulla on ollu kuumapaineet jotain about 2.4-2.5 kylmänä paineet on sitten lähempänä kahta. Nixsin kanssa tossa viestiteltiin, kun hän ihmetteli mun heikohkoa pitoa perässä ja sanoi käyttäneensä Zetassa reilun baarin kylmäpaineita ja kuumana jotain 1,5 baaria. No rupesin sitten tutustumaan aiheeseen ja nettiä pläräillessä löyty sitten täysin ristiriitaisia tietoja siitä, että milla paineita kannattaa käyttää. Alla on rengasvalmistajan näkemys asiasta, joka on kopsattu toiselta foorumilta. Perässä pari tästä poikkeavaa näkemystä, joissa suositellaan hyvinkin korkeita rengaspaineita (yli 3 bar).
Korkeammilla paineilla viestiketjun mukaan saavutetaan renkaan tasaisempi kuluminen, pidempi kesto ja hyvä pito. Mulla on kulunut renkaat enemmän keskeltä, jonka luulisi johtuvan liian korkeista paineista, mutta ilmeisesti tyrkkäämällä vaan lisää painetta rengas kuluu tasaisemmin. Matalat paineet yhden artikkelin mukaan saattavat toimia muutamia kierroksia, mutta kuluttavat myös rengasta huomattavasti enemmän. Nixsin käyttämillä paineilla myös ohjaustuntuma kärsii mielestäni. Seuraavalla Ahveniston ratapäivällä ajattelin kuitenkin kokeilla näitä ääripäitä.
Onko jollain näkemystä/kokemusta käytettävistä paineista?
-------------------------------------------------
My name is Alan Meaker, I am the Motorsport Manager for Toyo Tyres (UK) Ltd.
I was at Rockingham on the Saturday 1st March at the LOT trackday and worked with a couple of cars using our R888 tyre regarding pressures and tread temperatures.
What I would like to do is to offer some advice on tyre temperatures and pressures and how to achieve the best from our tyres when taking part in either trackdays or racing.
The R888 has a semi race construction (very stiff) and a race tread compound. The optimum tread temperature range is between 85C and 95C measured using a probe type pyrometer, and ideally a maximum difference across the tread of 9C. The maximum hot pressure we recommend is 40psi. Camber angles up to 5 degrees are permissible but the final setting will depend on tread temperatures. It is advisable to have as much positive castor as practical as castor induces a beneficial camber change during cornering. I recommend that the tyres be put through 2 heat cycles before hard use.
The pressures you use will initially depend on the weight of the car, too little pressure on a heavy car can lead to over deflection of the tyre and subsequent failure.
Below are some basic settings:
VEHICLE WEIGHT COLD PRESSURE HOT PRESSURE
Very Light < 800kg 17 - 22 psi 22 - 29 psi
Light 800kg - 1000kg 20 - 26 psi 24 - 32 psi
Heavy 1000kg - 1400kg 23 - 27 psi 28 - 40 psi
Very Heavy > 1400kg 27 - 35 psi 37 - 40 psi
As a tyre gets hotter the pressure increases, this is due to the moisture in the air. The cold pressure you set to achieve a desired hot pressure will depend on the conditions on the day i.e. ambient and track temperature, wet or dry. If the day/track is cold you will need to start with a higher cold pressure as the tyre will not get as hot therefore the pressure increase will not be so great.
Hot pressures must be balanced side to side. Once the tyres have cooled you will find that you will have a difference in pressure side to side, if you have been racing on a right hand track you will find the offside pressures will usually be higher than the nearside.
Changing hot inflation pressures by small amounts can be used to fine tune handling.
Reduce Oversteer Reduce rear pressures or increase front pressures
Increase Oversteer Increase rear pressures or reduce front pressures
Reduce Understeer Reduce front pressures or increase rear pressures
Increase Understeer Increase front pressures or reduce rear pressures
Achieving the required tread temperatures will depend again on the conditions on the day i.e. ambient and track temperature, wet or dry.
You often here competitors saying “My tyres started to go off towards the end of the race”, this is usually due to the tread getting to hot.
The tread temperatures are constantly changing through out a race, hotter when cornering and cooler when on the straights and cooling even more when you are slowing to come into the pits. Therefore the temps you record in the pits will be lower than those during the race. So if you record temperatures within the range given above the probability is the temps will be too high during the race.
Increasing your tyre pressures will cause your tread temperatures to increase, more pressure stiffens the tyre’s casing which results in the tread having to do more work resulting in the tread getting hotter. Lowering your pressures will cause them to decrease.
Inevitably changing one thing will affect other things, the whole set up of your car is a compromise between anything that is adjustable.
Some of you are also asking about different compounds. Originally we only had one compound ‘GG’ (medium hard), but we have now introduced some sizes in a ‘SG’ (soft/wet) compound. This was done primarily for sprint/hillclimb (around 60 second runs) where the distances covered are relatively short and you need the tyres to work/heat up very quickly. This is not a compound I would recommend for race/trackday dry use as the tyres will go off very quickly.
The sizes that will be available are:
185/60R13, 205/60R13, 195/50R15, 205/50R15, 225/45R16, 225/45R17.
Another subject is the introduction of our Proxes R1R. This tyre was due to be launched at the beginning of 2008, unfortunately this has been delayed to at least mid 2008 but there is a good chance it will be latter than this. Regarding sizes, initially we will have a rear fit (225/45ZR17) but not the front (195/50R16).
I hope this is of some use to you.
If I can be of any further assistance please give me a call.
01933 414537
Best Regards
Alan.
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.aimtire.com/typ_category.asp?...ectID=6828
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/autocros...-info.html
-----------------------------------------------------------
sa. Mulla on ollu kuumapaineet jotain about 2.4-2.5 kylmänä paineet on sitten lähempänä kahta. Nixsin kanssa tossa viestiteltiin, kun hän ihmetteli mun heikohkoa pitoa perässä ja sanoi käyttäneensä Zetassa reilun baarin kylmäpaineita ja kuumana jotain 1,5 baaria. No rupesin sitten tutustumaan aiheeseen ja nettiä pläräillessä löyty sitten täysin ristiriitaisia tietoja siitä, että milla paineita kannattaa käyttää. Alla on rengasvalmistajan näkemys asiasta, joka on kopsattu toiselta foorumilta. Perässä pari tästä poikkeavaa näkemystä, joissa suositellaan hyvinkin korkeita rengaspaineita (yli 3 bar). Korkeammilla paineilla viestiketjun mukaan saavutetaan renkaan tasaisempi kuluminen, pidempi kesto ja hyvä pito. Mulla on kulunut renkaat enemmän keskeltä, jonka luulisi johtuvan liian korkeista paineista, mutta ilmeisesti tyrkkäämällä vaan lisää painetta rengas kuluu tasaisemmin. Matalat paineet yhden artikkelin mukaan saattavat toimia muutamia kierroksia, mutta kuluttavat myös rengasta huomattavasti enemmän. Nixsin käyttämillä paineilla myös ohjaustuntuma kärsii mielestäni. Seuraavalla Ahveniston ratapäivällä ajattelin kuitenkin kokeilla näitä ääripäitä.
Onko jollain näkemystä/kokemusta käytettävistä paineista?
-------------------------------------------------
My name is Alan Meaker, I am the Motorsport Manager for Toyo Tyres (UK) Ltd.
I was at Rockingham on the Saturday 1st March at the LOT trackday and worked with a couple of cars using our R888 tyre regarding pressures and tread temperatures.
What I would like to do is to offer some advice on tyre temperatures and pressures and how to achieve the best from our tyres when taking part in either trackdays or racing.
The R888 has a semi race construction (very stiff) and a race tread compound. The optimum tread temperature range is between 85C and 95C measured using a probe type pyrometer, and ideally a maximum difference across the tread of 9C. The maximum hot pressure we recommend is 40psi. Camber angles up to 5 degrees are permissible but the final setting will depend on tread temperatures. It is advisable to have as much positive castor as practical as castor induces a beneficial camber change during cornering. I recommend that the tyres be put through 2 heat cycles before hard use.
The pressures you use will initially depend on the weight of the car, too little pressure on a heavy car can lead to over deflection of the tyre and subsequent failure.
Below are some basic settings:
VEHICLE WEIGHT COLD PRESSURE HOT PRESSURE
Very Light < 800kg 17 - 22 psi 22 - 29 psi
Light 800kg - 1000kg 20 - 26 psi 24 - 32 psi
Heavy 1000kg - 1400kg 23 - 27 psi 28 - 40 psi
Very Heavy > 1400kg 27 - 35 psi 37 - 40 psi
As a tyre gets hotter the pressure increases, this is due to the moisture in the air. The cold pressure you set to achieve a desired hot pressure will depend on the conditions on the day i.e. ambient and track temperature, wet or dry. If the day/track is cold you will need to start with a higher cold pressure as the tyre will not get as hot therefore the pressure increase will not be so great.
Hot pressures must be balanced side to side. Once the tyres have cooled you will find that you will have a difference in pressure side to side, if you have been racing on a right hand track you will find the offside pressures will usually be higher than the nearside.
Changing hot inflation pressures by small amounts can be used to fine tune handling.
Reduce Oversteer Reduce rear pressures or increase front pressures
Increase Oversteer Increase rear pressures or reduce front pressures
Reduce Understeer Reduce front pressures or increase rear pressures
Increase Understeer Increase front pressures or reduce rear pressures
Achieving the required tread temperatures will depend again on the conditions on the day i.e. ambient and track temperature, wet or dry.
You often here competitors saying “My tyres started to go off towards the end of the race”, this is usually due to the tread getting to hot.
The tread temperatures are constantly changing through out a race, hotter when cornering and cooler when on the straights and cooling even more when you are slowing to come into the pits. Therefore the temps you record in the pits will be lower than those during the race. So if you record temperatures within the range given above the probability is the temps will be too high during the race.
Increasing your tyre pressures will cause your tread temperatures to increase, more pressure stiffens the tyre’s casing which results in the tread having to do more work resulting in the tread getting hotter. Lowering your pressures will cause them to decrease.
Inevitably changing one thing will affect other things, the whole set up of your car is a compromise between anything that is adjustable.
Some of you are also asking about different compounds. Originally we only had one compound ‘GG’ (medium hard), but we have now introduced some sizes in a ‘SG’ (soft/wet) compound. This was done primarily for sprint/hillclimb (around 60 second runs) where the distances covered are relatively short and you need the tyres to work/heat up very quickly. This is not a compound I would recommend for race/trackday dry use as the tyres will go off very quickly.
The sizes that will be available are:
185/60R13, 205/60R13, 195/50R15, 205/50R15, 225/45R16, 225/45R17.
Another subject is the introduction of our Proxes R1R. This tyre was due to be launched at the beginning of 2008, unfortunately this has been delayed to at least mid 2008 but there is a good chance it will be latter than this. Regarding sizes, initially we will have a rear fit (225/45ZR17) but not the front (195/50R16).
I hope this is of some use to you.
If I can be of any further assistance please give me a call.
01933 414537
Best Regards
Alan.
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.aimtire.com/typ_category.asp?...ectID=6828
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/autocros...-info.html
-----------------------------------------------------------
2004 vm. 350Z, HKS8555
